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D800 and D800E Finally the wait is over

#1 User is offline   Ainsley H Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:00 AM

So it's been released the brand new Nikon D800 and D800e!!! As a D700 owner my first thought on looking at the specs was " Is this what I need to make my kit complete" I've been looking to buy another body for a while and if it hadn't been for the speculation about this camera over the last couple of years I would by now have another D700 body and would be happy with that!!! Now I'm not going to sit here and rattle off the specs etc, you will all be checking them out yourselfs over the next few days no doudt. The poroblem I now have with this camera is "It's not an up grade for the D700 it's a totally new camera to do a diffrant jod!!!" Any thoughts?

Ainsley
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#2 User is offline   William Allen Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:16 AM

Ainsley, the problem with any digital camera is that, just after you've bought one, a better one comes along and the resale value of your new toy goes into free-fall!

I accept that cameras are just tools and choose whatever will do my chosen task, so that I'll be content to use it for a while. Vulgar professionals, like me, don't usually feel the same compulsion to "upgrade" that seems to grip the enthusiast.

I hate buying new cameras so I choose my tools carefully and look after them.

#3 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:44 AM

Ainsley,

I will repost what I posted on another photography forum this morning - it will explain where I think we now are... (totally subjective!)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

So, no surprises there - much as predicted...
but a good strategic move for Nikon - and a bad one for some users!
my thoughts:

- this pushes Canon - their cameras have traditionally captured more pixels, but this is nearly twice the 5DMKII and over twice the others in their range...
- this pushes Hassleblad with more MP than their H4D-31 and at a quarter fo the price - yes, under £2,500 v £10,000!
- this opens up video another step - with Canon ahead in the video game - will this change things, not sure as I am not a video bod, but it is going to start to make folks think...
- this is the replacement for the D3x which is still selling - at double the price... why would a studio buy that if they can have this?
- the camera is built for landscape / studio / film
- the camera is NOT built for children / family / sports / etc.
- it leaves Nikon without a camera in the D700 range

Current Nikon line up:
PRO
D4 (replacing D3s)
D800(e) replacing D3x - not sure that this is happening formally, but can't see that the D3x makes sense any more...
D700 - while you can get it, not for long...
D300s - while you can get it, not for long...

Consumer
D7000 (replacing D90)
D5100 (replacing D5000)
D3100 (replacing D3000)

This means that the coverage is:
D3100 / D5100 - starter cameras at a choice of price ranges - amateur bodies...
D7000 - pro-am - the camera for the enthusiast
-------
D300s - entry (DX) pro body
D700 - entry (FX) pro body
------
D800(e) - landscape / studio pro camera
D4 - sports / journo / portrait / etc. pro camera

So, with the D700 / D300s on the way out I think that we are about to see a huge hole in their line up...
maybe this means that there will be a D400 on its way to cover both - would make sense... Nikon Rumours reckon a March announcement - again, makes sense

so I suspect that we will see a 16MP camera in March - the only question will be DX v FX...
i.e. will it replace the D300s or the D700 - either way, I wouldn't be surprised if they only release one camera to cover both...
expect it to have the new processing engine / AF system we are seeing in these cameras - FPS less than the D4 and ISO quality of a similar nature...

interesting times - but if the D700 was 'the camera' for you - buy one now - you may not get a direct equivalent from Nikon...

----------------------

so their D400 camera when it comes may be the body you are after - if not, buy another D700 - still a fantastic camera - I shoot with a D3s and D700 and use them interchangeably... most of the time...

Alasdair
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#4 User is offline   phaleesy Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:32 PM

The landscape photographers would not be pleased that they would have to pay 300 pounds more to get the anti-aliasing filter removed.

#5 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:06 PM

View Postphaleesy, on 07 February 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

The landscape photographers would not be pleased that they would have to pay 300 pounds more to get the anti-aliasing filter removed.


I would have thought that they would love it - costs quite a bit to do some of the after market conversions... this is a product with warranty!
Also, I believe that this is mainy to compete with medium format users who by default don't have such bits in their kit... they are going to love a camera at £2,500 where the entry Hassleblad is 4x at £10,000 for less MP :)

Alasdair
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#6 User is offline   Ainsley H Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:12 PM

Some very interesting points made, I have always been a believer in buying quality glass, I have all Nikon lenses a 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII, 105mmf/2.8 VR micro, 50mmf/1.4G and a 28-70 f/2.8D ( I like this lens as I can use it on my F3!) I also have a TC-20E III converter in my bag. I have bought these lenses over the last few years to enable me to be able to cover most situations. For a while now while I've been out at events etc I've only had my D700 body which has meant some very rapid lens changes!!! So I decided a while ago that i was going to get another body. However I also decide that it had to be Full Frame (FX) I did not want to start buying new lenses for a DX.

William
I totally agree with you I'm not one to up grade for the sake of it either! a camera is a tool to do a job, that's why I've been waiting for an Upgrade for the D700 and not just gone out and bought anything. As you say "I hate buying new cameras so I choose my tools carefully and look after them"

Alasdair
I think what you have written makes a lot of sense. I will have a look at the D400 if and when it comes. If is not what i am looking for though it will definitely be another D700 body for me. The event's and rally's that I cover start again in April so I have until then to decide what to do.

Regards
Ainsley
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#7 User is offline   Stuart Pratt Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

I'm waiting, probably in vain for a full frame Nikon DSLR that is affordable for your average family man. Alternatively a DX body with a decent viewfinder. I'm sure I'd appreciate the lack of noise etc. as well, but mostly crave a good viewfinder like on my F100.

If you don't make your living from photography, but you like nice toys, full frame is a huge expense that just isn't realistic for most of us. Will the cost of the D700 fall like a stone -Will it heck. It seems to me the D800 is not a replacement in any case, not with the huge pixel count. Man alive, how big will the RAW files be??!!

My D70s seems awfully outdated now, with only 6MP. I remember being blown away by the quality when I first bought it and the 18-70 autofocus has just died on me.

It strikes me that both Nikon and Canon are missing a trick not producing an affordable (say equivalent to the D7000 - £1000) full frame camera. Most of us with more pressing things to spend our money on would still wince, but we'd probably find the funds somewhere.
Stu

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#8 User is offline   Ainsley H Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostStuart Pratt, on 07 February 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

I'm waiting, probably in vain for a full frame Nikon DSLR that is affordable for your average family man. Alternatively a DX body with a decent viewfinder. I'm sure I'd appreciate the lack of noise etc. as well, but mostly crave a good viewfinder like on my F100.

If you don't make your living from photography, but you like nice toys, full frame is a huge expense that just isn't realistic for most of us. Will the cost of the D700 fall like a stone -Will it heck. It seems to me the D800 is not a replacement in any case, not with the huge pixel count. Man alive, how big will the RAW files be??!!

My D70s seems awfully outdated now, with only 6MP. I remember being blown away by the quality when I first bought it and the 18-70 auto focus has just died on me.

It strikes me that both Nikon and Canon are missing a trick not producing an affordable (say equivalent to the D7000 - £1000) full frame camera. Most of us with more pressing things to spend our money on would still wince, but we'd probably find the funds somewhere.


Stuart
I still have my D70s with the 18-70 kit lens I use it for family party's etc. Your right the DX view finder is rubbish, but I still use it and it's quite often in the glove box of my car for emergency's. Like you say outdated now but it but I still love it.
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#9 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:21 PM

View PostStuart Pratt, on 07 February 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

I'm waiting, probably in vain for a full frame Nikon DSLR that is affordable for your average family man. Alternatively a DX body with a decent viewfinder. I'm sure I'd appreciate the lack of noise etc. as well, but mostly crave a good viewfinder like on my F100.

If you don't make your living from photography, but you like nice toys, full frame is a huge expense that just isn't realistic for most of us. Will the cost of the D700 fall like a stone -Will it heck. It seems to me the D800 is not a replacement in any case, not with the huge pixel count. Man alive, how big will the RAW files be??!!

My D70s seems awfully outdated now, with only 6MP. I remember being blown away by the quality when I first bought it and the 18-70 autofocus has just died on me.

It strikes me that both Nikon and Canon are missing a trick not producing an affordable (say equivalent to the D7000 - £1000) full frame camera. Most of us with more pressing things to spend our money on would still wince, but we'd probably find the funds somewhere.


Totally understand Stuart - but I think that this is a minority market - amateurs (i.e. not earning / paying for the kit through the business), but professional level photographers is niche...
The D700 took users away from the big body cameras - potentially losing Nikon some money - I don't think we will see another...

Alasdair
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#10 User is offline   Chas Icon

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:47 PM

I have been saving like mad for over a year now to upgrade my camera. It is over 5 years old and that is a lifetime in technological terms. I have a friendly camera dealer and have told him I will have one. Posted Image

But then I think I might have to upgrade my computer to handle the large files, and also I will have to move to the latest version of Photoshop to get the correct RAW converter. Posted Image
"What you do in this world is a matter of no consequence. The question is, what can you make people believe you have done?" Sherlock Holmes - A Study in Scarlet. (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

#11 User is offline   Stuart Pratt Icon

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

View PostChas, on 07 February 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:


But then I think I might have to upgrade my computer to handle the large files, and also I will have to move to the latest version of Photoshop to get the correct RAW converter. Posted Image



Yes, that's putting me off as well. Think I'll shoot a bit more film.
Stu

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#12 User is offline   Paul Dunning Icon

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:06 PM

View PostCotswolds Chap, on 07 February 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

I would have thought that they would love it - costs quite a bit to do some of the after market conversions... this is a product with warranty!
Also, I believe that this is mainy to compete with medium format users who by default don't have such bits in their kit... they are going to love a camera at £2,500 where the entry Hassleblad is 4x at £10,000 for less MP :)

Alasdair


Ohhhh, so tempting, and I'd happily pay the extra for the 'e' version but...

No Nikon equivalent to the lovely Canon tilt shift lenses (that I know of).

My current preferred money pit is large format film, maybe in a year or two's time if I've had enough of film I'll consider switching but for now I'll stick with the 5D MkII for my digital needs.

I wonder what if anything Canon's response to this will be?

Paul.

#13 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:37 PM

just ordered one today...

Alasdair
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#14 User is offline   PAW Icon

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:16 PM

'It strikes me that both Nikon and Canon are missing a trick not producing an affordable (say equivalent to the D7000 - £1000) full frame camera.'

I totally agree with that sentiment from Stuart. I am waiting for the D5100 to be available again (or its upgrade!) as that is what I can afford and it's not the size and weight of a house brick! I like the spec and the handling of the D7000 but it's too expensive, too heavy and does not have the flip out screen which I want. Now I realize that my current auto focus lenses will not work as auto focus on new Nikons (having been mislead by 2 well known camera stores) I kind of wish I had jumped ship to Sony or Panasonic as the eventual cost will be almost as much as I replace my lenses!
This is a bit off topic but am I alone in finding that my hobby (more than a hobby to me)is being out priced for me?
And no, I am not a beginner but it annoys me that cameras like the D5100 are always described as entry level as if those of us who can't afford (or want the weight of) the so called enthusiast or semi pro cameras are somehow not serious about our photography!

#15 User is offline   simon3116 Icon

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostPAW, on 09 February 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:


This is a bit off topic but am I alone in finding that my hobby (more than a hobby to me)is being out priced for me?
And no, I am not a beginner but it annoys me that cameras like the D5100 are always described as entry level as if those of us who can't afford (or want the weight of) the so called enthusiast or semi pro cameras are somehow not serious about our photography!


I hate to think how much money I've wasted on cheaper gear. In the beginning I always bought new lenses that were in my price bracket but having spent a small fortune on gear in the past I now only buy second-hand from reputable dealers. It's possible to pick up fantastic quality older lenses for the same price as entry level lenses and get a 12 month warranty.

I can't wait to read what specs the D400 has, I'll be buying one in three years time when the price comes down and the D500 is out. Posted Image

#16 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostPAW, on 09 February 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

'It strikes me that both Nikon and Canon are missing a trick not producing an affordable (say equivalent to the D7000 - £1000) full frame camera.'

I totally agree with that sentiment from Stuart. I am waiting for the D5100 to be available again (or its upgrade!) as that is what I can afford and it's not the size and weight of a house brick! I like the spec and the handling of the D7000 but it's too expensive, too heavy and does not have the flip out screen which I want. Now I realize that my current auto focus lenses will not work as auto focus on new Nikons (having been mislead by 2 well known camera stores) I kind of wish I had jumped ship to Sony or Panasonic as the eventual cost will be almost as much as I replace my lenses!
This is a bit off topic but am I alone in finding that my hobby (more than a hobby to me)is being out priced for me?
And no, I am not a beginner but it annoys me that cameras like the D5100 are always described as entry level as if those of us who can't afford (or want the weight of) the so called enthusiast or semi pro cameras are somehow not serious about our photography!


Not sure I agree :) compare photography against other hobbies and it most certainly is not the most expensive! Think of those who enjoy racing (horse or car) / sailing - seen the price of a yacht recently?! / skiing (£1,000 every time you go) / cycling (carbon-fibre bicycle anyone?) / etc. etc.

also consider that actually the cheaper cameras are incredibly proficient now - we all know in our heart of hearts that the skill is with the photographer, it is not just about buying a more expensive camera... do we need high ISO? - yes sometimes, but most of the time we can control the lighting - high ISO performance is often an excuse for the lazy not to light the scene correctly...

so why do folks want the more expensive cameras? often it is not actually a need for their photography - but a desire to have something easier to use / with more toys on it / better status / etc.

with modern DSLRs a big part of the cost is the sensor - therefore manufacturers build cameras to a price / market profile... it doesn't make sense financially to put a FX sensor into a sub £1,000 camera - those who really need it will generally spend the extra money / the profit margins are too low and there is a lot of logic in having a ladder of progressively better models - tie that in with the fact that most people buying the sub £1,000 cameras don't even know the difference between full and crop... and you have today's model lineup...

I can't see it happening - but who knows what may happen in the future - we have this belief that there is something inherently better in FX than DX (of course there is!) but in reality the advantage is simply in having larger sensors - FX is not the optimum either... and perhaps we will over time see a progression to medium format sensors (much as we now have Gb of RAM where once we had Mb?!) - the D800 has a sensor roughly half the size of medium format - so the quality should be equal to a 70mb medium format camera... could be interesting...

Alasdair
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#17 User is offline   Martin Walters Icon

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:50 PM

I had a look at the specs of the D800 as soon as I knew it had been released. I was excited to say the least. I currently have a D700.

However after reading all about it I was left dissapointed and let down. Yes, its a new camera that apparently leaves the D4 stranded up at the top, especially if you're not into high fps. Why buy a D4 if you're not a professional when this one does all you want and more.

The resolution is more than doubled and that would be great to have - but, storing all this data is going to be a problem, even at the moment, and I have several 1Tb drives to use. Also at Dx crop you're shooting at 15Mpx which is wonderful.

I read somewhere that resolution however, would depend on the quality of the lenses you use and not just the number of pixels. Personally I think 36Mpx is just crushing them in too much and it's going to increase the noise as well, even though Nikon do have an excellent reputation with NR and high ISOs.

My analysis has led me to the following:

I would not buy the D800E - I am not sure that I would benefit from the extra resolution that it would provide even for a landscape enthusiast.
I am not really into video.
I don't like the 4fps on the D800, I think that is too low (I do take wildlife as well)
I am not that bothered on the 36Mpx size - it just makes files that much larger and increases storage capacity.
I just don't like the price of £2399.

I read on a forum somewhere (not sure where now):
In 2008 Nikon relased the D700 at $3000 in the US which equated to about £1700 in the UK. The exchange rate was about 0.6. In 2012 Nikon released the D800 at $3000 in the US which is £2399 in the UK and the exchange rate is still about 0.6.

I know VAT has increased by 2.5% since 2008 but surely a difference of £700 between US and UK is not right.
Martin Walters - Photography

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#18 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:20 PM

martin- fps is up to 6 with battery pack I believe...
though that is an extra expense...

Alasdair
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#19 User is offline   wcimages Icon

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostCotswolds Chap, on 10 February 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

martin- fps is up to 6 with battery pack I believe...
though that is an extra expense...

Alasdair


But not for FX I believe?

#20 User is offline   Cotswolds Chap Icon

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:33 PM

Frame advance rate • With EN-EL15 batteries
(FX/5:4) CL: approx. 1 to 4 fps, CH: approx. 4 fps, (DX/1.2×) CL: approx. 1 to 5 fps,
CH: approx. 5 fps
• Other power sources
(FX/5:4) CL: approx. 1 to 4 fps, CH: approx. 4 fps, (1.2×) CL: approx. 1 to 5 fps, CH:
approx. 5 fps, (DX) CL: approx. 1 to 5 fps, CH: approx. 6 fps

I think you are right!

Alasdair
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